Delving into the past - Lots of bull

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:57 pm

I've been doing some pedigree reading lately, trying to decide which semen to purchase. As I have mentioned elsewhere, the list published in our Dexter newsletter in Canada contains no descriptions at all so it is up to the buyer to search out information. Luckily Liz had a good-sized list of traits and bulls that she got from Carol Davidson (which saves me a long distance call!) so beginning with that I then looked at the pedigrees of each bull.

Canada imported a number of Wood Magic animals in the '70's so even though the bulls were bred and born here, several are pure Wood Magic; Trillium Cluny, Aldebaran Priapus, Cranworth Samson (dun). There are also two that are almost pure Wood Magic; Riverhill Dusk Enchanter and Trillium Charbotte. My cows need improvement in feet and a smaller size. They have excellent udders and I think they are pretty good overall. There were 11 animals imported to Canada, all cows but for one bull (Beaver II) so we have a lot of Wood Magic blood in our animals. Were there any particular lines with especially good feet? I'm assuming they were all pretty good for udders and milk yield. House cows are coming back into vogue here so that last bit is important.

Kathy

Liz D · Post by **Liz D** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:35 pm

Hi kathy; I think that Rambler was listed as improving feet, Salty and Cluny for smaller size. What I understand is that Chabotte might have been a little light on the back end. Liz

Woodmagic · Post by **Woodmagic** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:17 am

As far as I recall all the animals sent to Canada would have been fairly good on feet. However if you are thinking of using modern descendents, there is no guarantee that they still carry any of the genes of the imported animals.
Another complication is that although the exports all had the Woodmagic prefix, I deliberately included animals from the Doesmead herd., in order to give Doris Crowe a wider genetic pool. Mr Tuckey the breeder had an excellent milking herd, but believed the Dexter was pure dairy, and refused to breed for beef.` The descendents I sent over were distinguished by a first name beginning with ‘W’. I found in my own herd that it took many generations to improve from the leggy dairy type to a dual-purpose animal, with a good udder, although they all produced excellent milk and butterfat records.

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:17 am

I ended up choosing Trillium Cluny who was out of Woodmagic Beaver 2nd and Woodmagic Waxwing. Also picked Aldebaran Priapus who was out of Trillium Cluny and Woodmagic Wheatear. Was Woodmagic Beaver 2nd a Doesmead bull?

As you can see from the above, these bulls would not be "modern" descendants, but rather the originals. Beryl, can you tell me something about these Woodmagic imports? These bulls will be used on my herd and a friend's (she is using Dexter semen on her Jersey as well as her red Dexter). Is it possible that any of these might carry the dun gene?

Kathy

Woodmagic · Post by **Woodmagic** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:13 pm

Hi Kathy, I am speaking purely from memory, it isn’t very easy for me to delve into Herd Books to provide assistance, have just tried but drew a blank, Beaver was definitely pure Woodmagic,.and could be carrying the dun. Can you tell me his dam? I may be able to remember her. Waxwing and Wheatear were both Doesmead deecendents, their production should be good, but conformation may leave something to be desired. Pinstripe was certainly not a good looking Dexter, but one of Tuckey’s highest yielders. Best of luck with your calves..

marion · Post by **marion** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:52 pm

Hi Kathy, Woodmagic Beaver 2nd was dun. Both Cluny and Priapus are carriers of dun.
Woodmagic, the dam of Beaver 2nd was Woodmagic Zephyr's Dunlin [GB]F8749. Could you tell me, who is "Pinstripe"? Thanks!..marion

Woodmagic · Post by **Woodmagic** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:29 pm

Thanks Marion, am suffering from old age, of course Beaver was dun, I was concentrating so hard, trying to remember for certain, who his dam was. I wasn’t sure enough to say Zephyr’s Dunlin. She was a very handsome dual purpose animal about 41” a really excellent udder and feet, good on milk and butterfat. Doesmead Pinstripe I bought from Mr.Tuckey, she was pure dairy, never carried any flesh, fine boned and frankly ugly, purely a milking machine, although a good temperament.

marion · Post by **marion** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:54 pm

Great info Beryl! Where does Pinstripe fit into our Cdn pedigrees? I have never seen the name and dont have access to the Eng. pedigrees. Thanks, marion

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:26 pm

We have a Salty descendant bull. He has very good feet. He is now 8 and very sturdy. He throws lovely heifers ( not such good steers) and the height of his daughters which are G3 have indeed brought the herd average down. His only fault is that his rump is not beefy enough to be dual purpose.

One of his daughters will be giving us our first G4 calf in a few months time. I'll be interested to see how her udder develops and if the beautiful straight back will be carried on to the next generation. We can always pick a Salty calf, they just have his stamp on them. :D

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:16 am

Hi Inger,

Are you in Canada? What do you mean by G3 and G4?

Kathy

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 6:18 am

Hi Beryl,

Thank you for the information. In our Canadian database, the British Dexters don't usually have the colour noted and that is one of the fun things about Dexters. I could expect more Dun in the future using the two Woodmagic bulls... :D

Kathy

Woodmagic · Post by **Woodmagic** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:16 am

Marion, I have delayed in order to look things up instead of relying solely on memory. Now appreciate that Pinstripe does not appear in your Doesmead pedigrees only my own.
Can you confirm that we are talking about Wodmagic Waxwing 9088 and Woodmagic Wheatear 9087. I can then give you some information on their Woodmagic ancestry, and any relevant Doesmed that I owned.

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:17 pm

Beryl,

Was the Doesmead Woodmagic Wheatear short-legged?

Kathy

Liz D · Post by **Liz D** » Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:33 pm

Hi Beryl; Woodmagic Waxwing is listed as having GB 9088 but Wheatear only has the CDN pedigree number (that I can find) Sire Squirrel 2nd GB 2072 and Dam Doesmead Dianne GB 8453, hope that helps. Kathy, most of the 'red' or 'dun' animals registered carry R or D with their name, 'black' most times will have nothing. If ever you want to see what an animal is carrying look at their progeny, if they have had a few as in the case of most of our AI bulls, if they have registered red or dun sons/daughters, they carry it. Cluny for instance was a black bull but carried dun because I have a Cluny daughter who is dun. In fact most of the fun that I had with AI bulls has been looking at their proginy, US and Cdn, to see if they carry dun...so next year will be a surprise since all of my cows do! (Ok I have a lot of time in the winter!!!) Inger,I am really interested in your experiences with Salty. He hasn't been used much in Canada which is a pity I think, and he is one of the 'corner stones' of my little breeding program. Huh it is so little that I think that 'program' may be an overstatment! Have you any cows from him? If so,how is the weight gain for the calves or if you milk, their milk yeild? Anyway anything that you could tell me I would be fascinated to learn. Liz

Woodmagic · Post by **Woodmagic** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:32 am

Thanks so much Liz, that clinches it. The export to Canada was of calves of six months, and at that time the Woodmagic Herd were already entirely free of the achondrodysplasia gene. I cannot tell you very much about the final conformation of the youngsters, of course.
Wheatear is particularly interesting, her dam – Doesmead Diane 2nd was the exception for a Doesmead, a good-looking dual-purpose animal, slightly large. I sold her, purely because her temperament when she calved was vicious, and she was horned. Being single-handed, I have always put great emphasis on temperament, but for the export, I would undoubtedly have kept her daughter, to see whether the sire – W. Squirrel a Mudstopper son had improved it. His general conformation was excellent and he wasn’t too big.
Waxwing was out of ‘Windward’ Complex, for Windward read Doesmead as far as the breeding is concerned. Complex was a plain rather leggy animal, again good on milk. Waxwing’s sire W.Mink 2nd according to Marianne Seidenfaden, who imported many animals into Denmark, was the best Woodmagic sire she experienced. He was 40” at three years, a good looker, and an excellent temperament. All Mudstoppper’s sons were good temperamentally, and passed it on to their daughters.
Hope this fills in the picture a little, let me know if you have any further questions.