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Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:09 pm
by Simon
Do you think that it might be more benifical to charge a fee to list in the 'Cattle For Sale' section?
I am finding it increasingly frustrating looking to buy Dexters when told that the animal has been sold a long time ago and the phase "oh I keep meaning to update the site" - are the Dexters going back to May 2009 still for sale, because a number in August, September and October are not. Also, why include an email address as one of the forms of contact if you have no intension of replying to it?
It clearly states at the start of the section 'For people sending in cattle for inclusion on these pages, could you please let me know as soon as possible after they are sold, I need to keep the records fresh and up to date'.
So, maybe an advertisment fee would help?
Regards - a frustrated purchaser!!!
Simon
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:28 pm
by sid
I did offer Mark a donation when asking him to advertise my animals. I feel the site is a usefull tool for both sellers and purchasers alike and as such a small fee for the work alone should be justified. You are right in what you say ,if you had to pay for each month of advertising how many months would you needlessly advertise when they've gone on? Best of luck to the Cornwall couple who took on three of my animals yesterday!
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:32 pm
by redhill
Simon
I know its frustrating,
we have asked that Lammas Mayweed Willow be deleted 3 times since June and she is still there, we find it embarassing to tell people that she sold ages ago.
We know the website is a victim of its own popularity,
and yes a fee would be a good idea, what say everyone else?
Sue Castlemears herd
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:35 pm
by Mark Bowles
Dear Sue, i am very offended at your comments, i admit i am a little slow sometimes responding to emails and submitted adverts, but according to my inbox search i have had NO emails from you to say your animal has been sold.
I am pleased you had success in selling her.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:03 am
by Broomcroft
Just looking through the adverts. You can't tell much without a photo but where there is one, even the bulls are worth more than the asking prices for sausage and pie meat, even if they are older. Anything a reasonable size, fed well, will fetch well over £600, possibly up to £800 at the abattoir, whether pedigree registered or not. Doesn't make sense to me! If an animal is worth £600 for beef, unregistered, then surely the start off price for any half-decent pedigree, registered, DNA tested bull should be about £1000 minimum?
Edited By Broomcroft on 1255331148
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:01 am
by Colin
I've been thinking the same as Clive. Many of the prices being asked for live animals (not just bulls) are a lot less than their value as beef. So to me it would make more economic sense to beef more of the surplus animals. This will also reduce the supply of live animals and hopefully raise their prices. Not so good if you're a buyer I know.
Colin
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:57 am
by Ted Neal
Clive you do talk a load of b****cks. Get real and if necessary get a new breed. The value of animals as they stand is still about £1/kilo liveweight. The cost of killing and cutting is the same for big and small beasts. If you look in last week's Farmers Guardian light weight (which is probably what dexters are) steers range from 84.5p /kg liveweight to 152.5p. Heifers 65.5p to 194p and young bulls 92.5p to 149.33p.
Also I for one think that this website is the best thing since the Dexter Cattle Society and think Mark & family do a cracking job and so what if an animal is sold; I find it great to speak to other Dexter breeders. Keep up the good work family Bowles.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:58 pm
by justmalc
Ted,
I think you need to recognise that Clive has worked hard to establish a market for his beef and can no doubt achieve the prices he quotes.
I have a bull advertised (Monty) who is currently out on hire. After the winter if he is not sold I will convert him to beef and would expect to more than cover his potential value as a breeding bull - I like him so I'm giving him that chance.
Your comment on the costs of slaughter and butchery are inaccurate I'm afraid as our butcher charges less for Dexters than when we take larger breeds.
The reference to prices from the Farmers' Guardian is misleading as Dexter beef has its own market in which we find prices are typically significantly higher than for commercial cattle we produce. To refer to market prices for smaller cattle is slighly ridiculous.
All nonsense I'm afraid Ted - except the bit about the work Mark puts in.
Regards,
Malcolm.
Edited By justmalc on 1255348715
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:22 pm
by Broomcroft
There is no cost of slaughter to the farmer, you just take them to an appropriate abattoir as you would do with a butcher. I do not achieve high prices, I achieve normal prices. I have sent two bulls to the abattoir this year, one at about 36 months produced £600 and the other just under £700 at age 8. There is normally a reduction in price per kilo for lighter weights at the abattoir we use, but as bulls can be surprisingly heavy, if it is even a reasonable size you should not hit that reduction. The bull that I sent that achieved £600 for example, was fairly typical of what you see advertised. I was amazed at his deadweight...I had kept him because he was relatively small! For very small animals this won't work, which is what I was saying really. But looking at some of the ones with photos, that wouldn't apply and they would get normal prices. You are best obviously to wait until the prices are good. I don't know what they are right at this moment because we're not sending anything.
I don't mind if you or anyone Ted feels I have said something inaccurate but I object to been sworn at.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1255350535
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:49 pm
by domsmith
I dont know who is talking B***cks, but if you value your stock at £1 p/kg liveweight then it might be you. :p
i bought a dexter bullock at ayr market 6 weeks ago for £1.40 p/kg and i thought that was a bargain. It was in a commercial sale and was bid for on its weight not its breed by the other bidders.
dom
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:55 pm
by Broomcroft
They're not b****cks, they are sweatbreads, a favourite of mine, fried with a bit of lemon.....yummy. :D. £1.40's not bad. People were paying up to £1.00-£1.30 five years ago. £1.65 a kilo liveweight is still OK in my books and a finisher will pay that for good stock. At our market, some of the more popular breeds are achieving over £2 to put it in context.
My point about the underlying beef value is that people undervalue their stock because they see the other prices and think that's how it is. It needn't be. There has been considerable talk on this site about the low values that are achieved, but if you realise the underpinning beef value in many of the animals (not all), it helps people to ask for (what are to me) realistic values.
I don't think that consistently undervaluing livestock is good for any breed, especially with the cost of bulls being so disproportionately high.
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:42 am
by Louisa Gidney
Well, as one who hires out stud bulls, I would like to see more breeders realising the value of the stud bull and this being reflected in service fees.
A few of us had a minor gripe about this in the social get together at the AGM. I don't feel that £20-£25 per cow known to be in calf is excessive, with delivery and collection at cost. Everybody haggles for a discount, won't pay realistic mileage, or any mileage at all etc etc. Some don't pay for calves eg steers that they aren't going to register, some don't even pay at all! Everybody seems to think they are doing me a big favour by having the bull to stay for 6 weeks or so.
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:17 pm
by Colin
I very much agree Louisa. I hired my bull out last year for the first (and probably last) time. I was told the practice is to be paid per calf after they are born. I delivered and picked up the bull free of charge, had to wait around 12 months to get most of the payments, took all the risk for any cows not producing a live calf for whatever reason (I can prove my bull is very fertile) and for other owners who brought the odd cow in I never got paid the full amount.
If (and it's a big if) I do it again I will charge for the hire of the bull for 2 months, to be paid in full when he's picked up and at a more realistic rate than £25 per cow.
Colin
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:09 pm
by Mark Bowles
My bulls do not go out at all, my senior bull Seamer Supreme Ricard has served 3 females that were not mine in 3 years, i charge £50 per service with the option of the animal coming back if it returns, plus £5 per week keep in the summer. I work on the principal of if you dont like it go elsewhere. I have paid good money for my bull and others in the past, travelling the length and breadth of the country looking for them. To charge £20 in order for someone to drop for a nice non-short bull calf from them which they can run on as a bull and have the same breeding as me seems far too cheap.
I try to keep a closed herd where possible.
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:20 pm
by ann
I only let my bulls go to people I know appreciate the fact that I let them use them, i charge £30 per cow and expect payment when the bull comes back. I neither deliver or collect. Try using A.I occasionally and you will realize that this is a very cheap alternative.
I like Mark, really do not care if no one else uses my bulls, however I know its quite difficult in many cases for people to manage to get their cows in calf with A.I so in summer I usually have quite a few cows plus calves visiting and again I do not go out looking for them.
My charges here are £5 per week for cows and heifers or cows with calves at foot £7.50 plus £30 per service.
Don't moan about not getting paid, just refuse to let people use your bulls unless they accept your terms. Bulls cost money.
As for not paying until a calf is born, maybe you should ask for pick of the litter :p
:p