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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:12 am
by Minnie
I know of people who don't treat a visiting bull well at all. They often don't want to feed them and as Louisa said feel they're doing 'you' a favour.
We borrowed a bull from a breeder who was in dire drought and had him (just left) for almost three years. We cherished him and treated him as our own and were sad to see him go, but alas it was time for him to move on and our herd. He got into the neighbours cows and he said he wouldn't mind him staying to service his heifers rather than the brahman jumping the fence (he's not got dexter, a mixed bunch). While he was there it was said about our bull eating his grass, and he'd eat a lot. I told them what he got from that little bit of grass was cattle that he can send to the sales, and that shouldn't be forgotten!
With our new bull, I can't see us having him leave the property until he has to be sold, it's just not worth the risk of people not caring for them.
Why is it that so many don't realise the old adage that the bull 'is your herd', don't they understand I wonder.
???
Vicki
Edited By Minnie on 1255500838
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:21 pm
by Broomcroft
I would never hire a bull out but if we did, it would be on the basis of what Mark has said. We will lend a bull out but only to the very best of people who we trust.
We did decide to hire out about 5 years ago. Got our first customer. The woman phoned up and Caroline answered. I was the other side of the table. Caroline explained the charge was £25 a cow at that time, everything was fine and that was accepted, then she said that there would be a £15 loading and delivery charge (about 10 miles), bearing in mind you can spend half a day loading, delivering, chatting, returning and then power-washing your trailer for which the fee should really be more like £100. The woman exploded and started using foul language at such volume that Caroline had to hold the phone away from hear head for probably about 1 minute, then just said goodbye and put it down. That's people for you, or at least some!
All she had to say to Caroline was no!
We did take cows in for covering, and that worked out very well and we charged exactly the same but didn't have to do much. Wouldn't do it now though 'cause of disease risk.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1255541217
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:38 am
by Louise Badcock
On the other side of the coin I rely on the goodwill of the folks who let me use their bull. So thanks to Graham Hunt, Louisa Gidney, David Harle and the late Dave Dawson i have managed a calf every year for 20 years.
I have taken my cow out and had bulls in. The main worry is the fencing for the bulls, but luckily I have no other cattle in sight now.
I have tried buying semen but with a tiny herd of 1 cow and followers it is difficult to spot the activity. In addition the storage costs add up massively.
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:28 pm
by CarolineL
To echo Louise's comments, I also rely on the generosity of people hiring out bulls and know that we are very lucky to get one at all. We are too small a scale at the moment (3 cows plus followers) to have our own bull. Any bull on hire should be treated as royalty by the hirer as they ought to know how valuable he his to his owner and how absolutely essential he is to the future of their herd.
We paid £25 per service last time, with the offer of a free return if the cow came bulling again, which I thought was very generous as the fault may just as well be with the cow than with the bull. We paid for delivery and collection too. We are expecting to pay more for the bull we've got in this time, collected it ourselves and will return it if required or pay for collection.
If you are thinking of hiring out a bull, it's vital to make sure terms are set before he goes (and if anyone thinks it's too expensive wish them luck finding one elsewhere!), and make sure he goes to someone you trust who appreciates how valuable and essential he is. And to all potential bull hirers: please remember the little guys starting out who are so grateful to be able to hire a bull!!
Perhaps something on bull hiring etiquette, cost and work that goes into producing a pedigree bull, etc in the next bulletin??
Thanks
Caroline
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:59 pm
by Woodmagic
Don’t be too apologetic Caroline. I agree you should remain aware of the value of a good bull. However the Society largely consists of smallholder members and it is their subscriptions that keep the Society going. The calves those bulls sire will provide useful income in the form of registration fees and more calves in due course. The bull owner should bear in mind that nobody can keep a cow simply to look at, it is in his interests to ensure the small breeder can get his cows in calf without too much agro or expense.
Beryl (Woodmagic)
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:19 pm
by clacko
sorry to disagree, i would willing pay £50 + del for a service by loan of a bull, if i had ten females to cover i would probably try and cheek £40-45 depending on bull, how far does £25 go on forage, vet bills, wormers, foot trimmers, time and hassle of moving. it's should only be a yearly expence and look what you could have in return, it really is nothing in the cost of keeping any livestock, a good takeaway for 2 costs £25, have a jam sandwich instead, :D paul
Edited By clacko on 1255637989
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:26 pm
by clacko
Simon wrote:Do you think that it might be more benifical to charge a fee to list in the 'Cattle For Sale' section?
I am finding it increasingly frustrating looking to buy Dexters when told that the animal has been sold a long time ago and the phase "oh I keep meaning to update the site" - are the Dexters going back to May 2009 still for sale, because a number in August, September and October are not. Also, why include an email address as one of the forms of contact if you have no intension of replying to it?
It clearly states at the start of the section 'For people sending in cattle for inclusion on these pages, could you please let me know as soon as possible after they are sold, I need to keep the records fresh and up to date'.
So, maybe an advertisment fee would help?
Regards - a frustrated purchaser!!!
Simon
isn't it amazing how one topic leads to another, just looked back at opening post!!!! ???
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:23 pm
by Woodmagic
Clacko I admire your enthusiasm, but I have to ask what are you purchasing? Very few bulls have any performance credentials. The majority are valued only on their appearance. The present elite bull scheme is a genetical nonsense. Appearance gives no guide as to what they will throw
The Dexter is alone in having no breed statistics to guide you. I breed my bulls to sire calves that will pay their way, in today’s economic climate more essential than ever. Winning in the shows does not guarantee anything for the progeny
Beryl (Woodmagic)
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:25 pm
by Broomcroft
clacko wrote:i would willing pay £50 + del for a service by loan of a bull, if i had ten females to cover i would probably try and cheek £40-45 depending on bull
Paul - Doesn't that come to £1500 over just 3 years? If so, with bull prices being what they are, I would buy one, use it for a couple/three years, whatever, feed it up and beef it, or just sell it. Or get an older good quality one, use it and beef it. You can buy a cracking bull for £1,500.
Totally agree with Beryl about performance and Elite bulls. The only bad bull I have had steers from was Elite and they were consistently bad.
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:15 pm
by clacko
what i was refering to was that if i could not keep a bull for whatever reason then i dont think £50 is to much to ask for serving from a well bred bull, we have our own bull now so we don't need to bring one in. there is one bull i have seen, and have brought some of his progeny. i would pay more to use him over some of my stock just by seeing the quality of what he throws. i have also learnt the hard way as i have brought some real crap, that bad i will not sell them to breed from, so they are destined for the freezer. i know what you are saying about no performance recording with dexters and you are bang on with what you say about apperance, we have been told by someone respected with a excellent reputation in dexters to avoid a certain high priced show winning bulls progeny with a barge pole. i also agree with you clive, but i was refering to those who won't or can't keep a bull. paul
Edited By clacko on 1255720580
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:34 pm
by tooloos
we hired a bull in not long after we bought our first cows as they were empty as we are in a yearly tb testing area it seemed a bit of a problem to get a bull with breeders being shut down etc but luckily a breeder had one off his own farm and tested clear at another farm where he had been working sothis made it able to move. The fee was £25 per cow and the bull delivered. We paid on arrival so there was no problem with the breeder not knowing us and we had to have the bull tb tested before he left , knowing we were going to have a few more cows eventually we decided to purchase our own bull as it would give us a closed herd and no more problems with finding a bull to hire . We don t regret this decision as we know what the bull is like and after two maybe three years we can sell him on for exactly the same amount as we paid for him and we ll have his calves .
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:49 pm
by sid
Anybody seeing the cows from Dorset on the for sale side i'm afraid they have all gone. Last one went today. Best of luck to all of you, will still keep an interest in the site, keep up the good work mark.
Simon
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:13 pm
by Cascade, NZ
Perhaps an expiry could be put on the for sale ads, after which time they are removed from the list. This is used by a couple of websites in NZ that run free for sale listings and seems successful. The ad is removed after a certain period of time if there is no notification that the animal has been sold before this (2 months is used on one website) and it is then up to the seller to renew their ad if required.