outwintering/ foggage

pudser · Post by **pudser** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:52 pm

Hi,

I am interested in learning more about outwintering without using round feeders .I want to get away from feeding silage and maybe lightly supplement with concentrates. Does anyone farm dexters extensively in a commonage type situation where the cattle have a big run?

i have been told that it is practised in parts of Scotland with Highland ,belted galloways or thir crosses and I have failed to find much on line
Thanks

P

domsmith · Post by **domsmith** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:16 pm

i think there are a couple of ways to do it.

deferred grazing, leaving summer grass ungrazed to build up and then graze it over the winter.

or grazing a stubble crop like kale or turnip.

neither are as easy as they sound. for deferred grazing you need alot of rough ground which will take cattle all winter. i would assume you need minerals etc. google deferred grazing and i am sure you will find reports done by our SAC.
we defer about 40 acres to graze now, but it lasts no time at all.
dexters are good at it!!!

kale and turnips sound good and next year we will try it. everywhere says you need to still feed starw or silage but people i speak to say not to bother. its more sensible on the acreage. 4-6 acres might feed 30 cows for 100days. again there is lots of info from SAC search for outwintering, it is fairly common.

all these methods are the way forward as far as i am concerned, sheds arent affordable and nitrate for silage is the same.

dom

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:41 pm

Our Dexters stay out on grass that we have left to grow long and feggy for most of the winter. With us these are the fields we used for hay in the summer, we don't turn back in straight after but allow the regrowth to grow long.

We try to move them about regularly so nothing gets eaten off too short - as it poaches too easily then. Gateways tend to get a bit muddy but the rest stays fine.

They are out night and day until it gets either very wet indeed or snows heavily and then they come in at night, except maybe the bull and one for company that have a stone shed to run back to.

So far we haven't fed any hay and have one totally untouched field.

Although we often feed a slice or two of hay loose on the ground. We find they waste very little if you put each slice a long way from another and use a different clean spot every day.

Stephanie

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:15 pm

We do sort of what dom says but with white clover leys, which are still green and lush up to XMas and beyond. Some of our cattle have never been in a building, but not many, and they always look in great condition. But we put hay out otherwise we get bloat.

Edited By Broomcroft on 1257790602

Woodmagic · Post by **Woodmagic** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:53 pm

My ground is far too wet to run mine out. Building is expensive but given you have that, a built in silo and an electrified wire or bar saves handling. I use no chemicals neither sprays or fertilizer, all muck goes on the silage ground. I do buy in a little hay to cover animals that are boxed for some reason and cant access the silage. They all receive around 1¾ lbs of high magnesium suckler cow rolls, this system requires the minimum of labour and the cattle maintain condition, they have access to a dry field by day
Beryl (Woodmagic)

domsmith · Post by **domsmith** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:43 pm

Thats right you have to make the most of what you have, my building are full of my veal bulls so no room in the inn.
i wanted to build a new shed but the thought of borrowing money worries me so we will use our resoiurces and manage. saying that some cows have gone to neighbours for a while whilst i sort some things out. we are experimenting with a wood chip corral. and next year will definately try growing kale.

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:05 pm

I have been lucky for the last few years and have taken on more rented ground, first a 13 acre enclosure mostly rushes, with an adjoining 3 acres very wet and only possible to use in winter due to neighbouring cattle. Then after 2 years with that I got a holding next door with a total of about another 20 acres in small fields, unfortunately very poorly fenced and two 4 acre fields not yet useable. I am progresssively spraying rushes with MCPA after cutting and regrowth, but it has been a problem getting it dry enough even in late summer to spray at optimum time. As all this has been going on I have expanded the herd from 3 to 6 or 7 cows, now have 10 heifers in the system. In the winter any vulnerable old cows, the bull, and any I want to get used to halter go in a shed at my house, but the majority are out all year. I start now giving half a small bale hay between a dozen mixed ages, step up soon to a bale a day, and as the roughage gets less over the winter I move them around and sometimes put the hay up to two bales daily. As the grass grows in the spring they lose interest in the hay and I give magnesium cobs for a few weeks around calving - April/May. So far the numbers of cattle have matched the useable land and I have even sent finished steers in the first week of April to the slaughterhouse. I buy in all the hay, a bit expensive and getting difficult to get small bales. The hay is fed on the ground, carried into field and leaves thrown about, spreading any damage to the ground. I MAY change to wrapped small bales from my own ground but not certain yet. I have never put any fertiliser on any of this ground.

Duncan

pudser · Post by **pudser** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:39 pm

thats great the tip to google "extended grazing " worked and opened up a whole new world of possibilities.
Its all about adapting what work on each particular farm and balancing cost control wothout sacrificing animal welfare standards.

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:34 pm

Found another site somewhere which suggested strip grazing foggage using an electric wire to stop them treading it down too quickly.

clacko · Post by **clacko** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:01 pm

one of my first jobs on the farm as a boy was to move the kale fence every morning, used to rotate grass leys about every 5-6years and drill with marrow stem kale. think the rows were about 18" apart and if you avoided the root diesease and pigeons and it got away it was a good heavy crop. you could alway taste the kale in the milk as well. cows also had silage mix with protien and minerals added along with a bit of cake in the parlour

ann lea · Post by **ann lea** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:04 pm

We outwinter 50 Dexters, 25 will be on a 1.54 hectare field of Maris Kesteral Kale. The headlands are left as grass where we site large pads of straw for lying areas. The electric fence is moved one metre every day and they have access to water and a ring feeder of silage. By March the field is ploughed up and planted with a fast growing grass like Westwold which is foraged and wrapped as round bales and left in a pile on the headland for next year. The stubble is burnt off and replanted with Kale, so we get two crops a year. The Dexters love the Kale, we are finishing steers in March at 22 months.

Ann Lea

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:40 pm

When our milking herd were out on kale, they seemed to burp more - you don't forget that kale burp smell - I used to think I could almost see a faint haze of green in the cloud of burp!

Stephanie

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:29 am

Well apparently Kale is a wild cabbage so I suppose it has the same effect as cabbage does on some people (or so I'm told) :D. Sounds like it might not be the best in terms of their carbon footprint ???

Edited By Broomcroft on 1258014609

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:26 pm

ann lea wrote:We outwinter 50 Dexters, 25 will be on a 1.54 hectare field of Maris Kesteral Kale. The headlands are left as grass where we site large pads of straw for lying areas. The electric fence is moved one metre every day and they have access to water and a ring feeder of silage. By March the field is ploughed up and planted with a fast growing grass like Westwold which is foraged and wrapped as round bales and left in a pile on the headland for next year. The stubble is burnt off and replanted with Kale, so we get two crops a year. The Dexters love the Kale, we are finishing steers in March at 22 months.

Ann Lea

Ann - Reading up some more about grass-fed and grass-finishing. Of course it's not all about grass as we all use clover and other things, and also, forage isn't grass, it's dead grass, and hay in particular doesn't do much at all. Silage is better but it's not green and alive which is the main point. Anyhow, what it's all about is not using certain grains (i.e. seed heads, included grass seed-heads). One of the best things for grass-finishing is apparently cereal crops which are grazed before they come to a head. Why I brought this subject up again is because I've just been reading through the American Grass-Fed Association standards and the USDA standards for "grass-fed" and it includes brassicas as well as clover etc. Kale classifies as grass-finishing, or non-grain finishing if you prefer, although it mentions that it can impart a flavour to the beef that may be not so good.

Have you noticed any bad flavour in the beef?

Edited By Broomcroft on 1262377935

ann lea · Post by **ann lea** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:12 pm

No Clive we have not had a problem with tainting. But the Kale is not their only food source. It would be far too high a protein diet. At the moment 25 are getting through a round bale of silage every 3/4 days as well. The longest they will be on the Kale is 14 weeks. Last year we killed three straight off the crop and six several weeks later. If there was a problem with the flavour I am sure my butcher would say. He is very particular, he prefers heifers to steers but interestingly shows no preference to shorts/non shorts.
Ann Lea
Wheeley Moor Dexters