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Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:08 pm
by Tim Watson
We have two heifers as follows:-
Pipit - 18 months old - dehorned as a calf but they are growing back
Pia - 10 months old - not dehorned
Both are showing 2" - 3" of horn and it is growing steadily.
When the vet was here today for the TB test she said that she could dehorn them on Saturday. I have asked her to let me know how much it will cost.
She said that although there is a local anaesthetic it will be messy and bloody and they will need keeping in for a few days. We will need to apply some anti fly until they are scabbed over. She also said that by the time they had been done they would not be as happy to go into the crush as they were this morning and that we would have to put some effort into getting them happy with it again.
I need advice please. Do we go ahead or not? My thinking is that while we are beginners it may be best to remove them. I can put up with a kick but am more worried about dealing with horns.
Thanks
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:04 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
A few things to think about here.
A new herd, so big decision, do you want them horned or not? Probably best to be either all horned or all dehorned or polled. I used to keep all mine with horns like Bill Osborne but then built a shed with loose housing for winter and found it best to dehorn. Tied in an old fashioned byre they were ok with the horns on, and never did me any harm.
One has been attempted before - she is unlikely to grow good looking horns
Time of year is tight for flies leading to maggots. If you are going for it, do it asap and use spoton, swish or similar to keep flies off. They will take some time to heal, but they will heal, don't be too upset by the blood at the time.
If your vet thinks your area may be bad for flies they could both be left till autumn when fly risk goes again.
Duncan
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:11 pm
by ann
It may be worth asking around to see if there is a vet who can do a better job.
My vet has taken horns of for me, no blood and yes maybe it will upset them slightly but No horns to poke you in the eye, you could always position your crush, so that after they have to walk through it, for a bit of hand grub.
I recently had someone pick a cow & calf up from me with a very black eye, the result of a heifers horn catching him when he was putting food in a trough, he was very lucky it had not caught his eye.
I use the paste on my young calves which i can sort out myself.
I know you will get some owners who like them with horns, however I think they canbe very dangerous and best removed.
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:02 pm
by strawberriesclint
I agree with Anne, as a personal preferance i always dehorn them. After having a vet in to dehorn them and the fact that they made a right mess of it and the horns grew back, where upon i disputed the bill that at the time amounted to £300 and they came back out and redone them. I now debud myself when they are about 6 weeks old, which seems fairly unstressfull and no blood.
When they dehorn, again if done properly there is very little blood as they tend to put a debudding iron on the cut off horn which normally stops the blood.
cyndy
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:18 pm
by Bridgehouse
Hi
I recently had 2 heifer calves dehorned at about nine months old. There was some blood as he cut it off but he sealed that with a hot iron and all was fine. I have always had them done autumn or early spring to reduce the fly issue. I also had a three year old cows horn removed that had grown back after being done as a calf. As Duncan said it was not a natural horn that had grown back and had started to grow backwards and was getting close to the cows head. I dont handle my cattle a lot but the two that were de-horned are just as inquisitive with me in the field as the others.
I think a lot of treatments in the crush could affect the animals wish to re-enter a crush and therefore some thought about keeping them calm and at ease. I have put my animals through a crush before with no treatment so hopefully they do not always think they will be injected, de-horned- castrated etc.
Personally I do not feel with some care there should be a reason not to have them done and therefore as Duncan said you need to decide if you have a preference of a herd with or without horns. Mine are all dehorned however I did visit a local herd of horned Dexters and I thought how well they looked.
Mark
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:42 pm
by domsmith
I think if you have 2 cows i would not put my cows through dehorning unless they really p****d me off.
i have a mixture and yes horns cause their problems and we will probably dehorn all calves from now on. but when you dehorn a cow you upset the balance of power in the herd.
i have had my close shaves and the black eye usually from just being careless never from malice on a cows front. my black eye was from a jersy steer just a few weeks ago at the feed trough.
horns to me are a natural part of the breed and look fantastic.
if i were a visiting vet i might not be so keen. on the continent they seem to keep their horns on all cattle.
dom
Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:16 am
by Minnie
Hi Tim,
We have two horned, one messed horn and nine dehorned with the hot iron at a few weeks of age.
The two horned girls give everyone curry when there's food involved or in a tight spot so instead of dehorning (they're a few years old) we're going to tip them, so they aren't pointy and lethal, although they can still cause bruising to the other cattle and us.
My preference is dehorning with the iron at a few weeks but sometimes things just don't go that well so it's a toss up and leaving, dehorning or tipping.
Vicki
Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:20 am
by Broomcroft
My total experience with horns Tim is one very small dexter cow. She seemed OK but I once caught her ramming a hornless one twice her size up the wall with one horn sticking in so hard I couldn't believe it didn't pierce her. So no horns here as a scrap is always possible and one with weapons and the other without isn't a good idea to my mind, especially indoors. A bit of blunt regrowth is not an issue.
Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:23 pm
by Martin
Take them off, they are horrid weapons against man and beast! I would rather any confrontations with an angry cow be with an unarmed one, not that I have angry cows but even the most placid can be protective of a young calf.
How would you feel if those horns damaged one of your children/grandchildren? reduce the risk, take them off!!!!
Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:52 pm
by Mark Bowles
I agree with Martin, take them off. We dehorn between 4 and 8 weeks, not a problem, if you start to leave it later then it gets more difficult and does not do a proper job. You get stumps and regrowth if you leave it too long. Have you thought of buying a polled bull!
Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:35 pm
by Tim Watson
Thanks everyone for the input.
They are coming off next Wednesday - £25/heifer - which seems reasonable to me.
They will stay in for a few days and then go out into a fresh field slathered in anti-fly cream.
Thaks again.
Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:12 am
by wagra dexters
Horns are very useful for fending off wild dogs, Tim. We keep one particular cow specifically because she does attack dogs, and can lead others to join in also. A comfort at calving time over the few hours I could not be with them, but would otherwise choose to have a completely dehorned mob.
We still have nine with horns, usually kept seperated from the others, requiring 3 round bale feeders between them. We have about forty others, disbudded at one week old, requiring only 6 round bale feeders between them. Early days we had 3 cows requiring stitches in the tender parts, one of them even after we had taken 3 inches off the horn tips.
They are much easier to handle without horns, can be worked in closer confinement, much safer with other cows' calves also. The only argument for horns on an otherwise safe small farm is aesthetics. They do look wonderful, but what price comfort and safety?
Margaret
Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:45 pm
by davidw
I remember a comment from the Crossgar meats meeting. If you intend to sell for beef, most buyers strongly prefer dehorned cattle because of the serious amount of damage that horned animals can do to each other. The wastage due to horn bruising can be very significant.
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:06 am
by Denise
Dehorned or poll is my choice also.
I remember reading a story in an Aussie newspaper a year or so back, about a person at the saleyards, walking up the side of the race and a horned beasty (didnt intentionally do it) caught the person on the jugular vein and they bled to death before anyone could do anything about it.
Just an unfortunate accident - but, had the beasts all been dehorned, a person would not have lost their life.
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:36 pm
by ann
I personally don't like the head shape that comes with the polling gene, however thats personal choice, buying a polled bull is no guarantee you will get polled calves. I had a polled bull for several years which i only used on heifers myself and out of all the calves he produced, which was quite a few, as I hired him out. The percentage of polled ones was very small. so I guess if your buying a polled one you need to know he is passing the gene on
