Transport Certificate of Competence (UK) - From 5 January 2008

[Broomcroft]

What do you make of this?

Derogations

In addition to these exemptions Member States have the option of implementing a number of further derogations. In the UK the Regulation shall not apply to:

1. Vehicles used or hired, without a driver, by agricultural, horticultural, forestry, farming or fishery undertakings for carrying goods as part of their own entrepreneurial activity within a radius of up to 100km (60 miles) from the base of the undertaking;

2. Agricultural tractors and forestry tractors used for agricultural or forestry activities, within a radius of up to 100km (60 miles) from the base of the undertaking which owns, hires or leases the vehicle;

3. Vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 7.5 tonnes used for carrying materials, equipment or machinery for the driver's use in the course of his work, where driving does not constitute the driver’s main activity, used within a radius of 50km radius of the base of the undertaking;

4. Vehicles operating exclusively on islands not exceeding 2,300 square kilometres (km2) in area which are not linked to the rest of the national territory by a bridge, ford or tunnel open for use by motor vehicles. As a guide, the Isle of Wight is approximately 380km2.

5. Vehicles used in connection with sewerage and flood protection maintenance services;

The definition of ‘goods’ referred to in derogation 1, above, will include livestock. Therefore livestock may be transported for distances of up to 100km (60 miles) in vehicles which do not have tachographs fitted and the drivers of which do not have to comply with drivers’ hours rules, provided all the other conditions of derogation number 1 above are met. The legislation does not apply to vehicles (or combinations of vehicles) whose maximum permissible mass is not more than 3.5 tonnes.

Where derogation 1 does not apply, for example, where livestock is transported by a non-agricultural business such as a haulage firm, the distance which livestock may be transported from farm to market and vice versa and from market to slaughterhouse is reduced to 50km (30 miles). Journeys of this nature which exceed this distance threshold must be in compliance with drivers’ hours and tachograph rules.



Edited By Broomcroft on 1267690476

[Broomcroft]

I've had another conversation with a specialist who says that if I am carrying my own livestock then derogation 1 "might" apply, i.e. I can travel within a 100km radius of our farm. But derogation 1 and 9 don't sit happily together and it is a recognised grey area subject to interpretation!!!

Derogation 9. Vehicles used for the carriage of live animals from farms to local markets and vice versa or from markets to local slaughterhouses within a radius of up to 50 km.

The situation with tractors is that if they are built to do a max of 40kph, then the whole lot doesn't apply unless you are doing forestry and assuming it's your tractors collecting/delivering stuff for you.

That's a very brief summary of my discussion and don't take my work for it. The only way to be sure is to agree in advance with your the vosa office. What chance you have of that I do not know.

She also thought that if prize money was small or zero, and it is clearly a hobby to you, then showing should be excluded from this legislation. But again, and individual inspectors may interpret the rules differently and some will say that the prize money makes it commercial, or that goring to the show helps you get customers for your stock. Apparently these grey areas are being worked on as we speak. So hopefully as it's the EU, it'll only be another 5 years and about 5 million quid before we have an answer



Edited By Broomcroft on 1267712329

[bjreroberts]

Derogation 9, does seem very strange, if you are going to have a derogation for livestock separate to that for agriculture then it can only be for monitoring of welfare?

If that is the case then common sense would say the distances should correspond to those for livestock transport i.e. 65km which also originate from EU legislation.

[SteveM]

That sounds a lot better and will probably solve the problem for a lot of people.

I am reading this now that farmers can carry there own goods, including livestock within 100km of base, and that if you were a haulage contractor only travelling within 50km of base you wont need a tacho either for non hgv vehicles.

Only problem is emley, otley, thirsk, egton & melton mowbrey are outside the limit for me.

But hopefully good news for people more centrally located.

Looking on an isuzu owners forum they were discussing this subject years ago.

[Broomcroft]

If you buy a 25+ year old landrover (or any vehicle that age), you can avoid ALL the tacho legislation because it's a historic vehicle.

[natmadaboutdexters]

Wonder why there is nothing about this on the DEFRA website? Although there could be of course but the website is so hard to navigate I could have easily missed it. Who will be checking the weights at shows? VOSA, Police, Defra? Will they all have a weighbridge? We have only been asked for our cert of competence once and that was at Newbury. It all still seems very confusing.

Natasha

[Broomcroft]

I don't think it' anything to do with animals Natasha, it's to do with transport, no matter what you are towing or carrying, be it cattle, sheep, a machine, or even an empty trailer. So the authorities are VOSA and the Police. That's how I see it anyway.

It's not the weight you are carrying, it's the weight your set-up is capable of carrying. So my vehicle has a published weight of 2.7 tonnes, it is capable of towing 3.5 tonnes on top of that and my trailer is also rated up to 3.5 tonnes. So the total possible train weight is 6.2 tonnes. The trailer could be empty but the law assumes that you may be filling the trailer up on your journey somewhere.

So most (but not all probably) vehicle combinations that are capable of towing cattle will fall into this category.

If the interpretation I was given of 100km radius from the vehicles base is correct, then if you draw that on a map it is surprisingly large. It takes me from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth.

I'm not sure which vehicle weight you use for the calculation though, i.e. the kerb weight, which I think means empty, or the gross weight which I assume means full to it's theoretical carrying capacity. I don't know these terms.

To me it seems really quite daft. Because yo could assume that even when I haven't got a trailer attached, I might be going to pick one up somewhere on the journey, so why the problem with an empty trailer?



Edited By Broomcroft on 1268140486

[SteveM]

Booked in for tacho on monday morning.

Some of the 3dr freelanders have a gross weight, and recommended towing weight which combined is less than 3.5 ton.

So cannot be fitted with a tacho as they cant legally be over 3.5 ton train weight.

Dont know how you would get on if stopped with a trailer which if fully loaded you couldnt legally tow.

[domsmith]

You would be in trouble and fined upto £5000.

a local guy did a bit of haulage of cattle feed for me this christmas, when the blowers couldnt get up our hill.
he had a transit flat bed pickup.
i asked him to get as many tote bags on as he could carry. he said 2 tonnes worth. this transit is in the 3.5 ton class. i did not think anything of it.
he delivered and left me the weigh slip. he was 2.8 empty 4.8 loaded! a mere 1.3 tonnes over his legal limit and he just did not realise.(or care)

[clacko]

this tacho job is not new by any means, in 2001 a new hilux was brought, and on the dash it had a sticker stating that if a tow bar was fitted to the vechile it would by law require a tacho. i also no a few poeple who have been stopped by the law at night, to make sure the trailers are not stolen and nothing has been mentioned. think i will wait and see how hot they are going to be, also the insurance companys would surley state that you would need a tacho or your insurance could be void, our trailer is covered by our policy on the back of the motor but not the stock inside it.
paul ???

[Broomcroft]

I've been stopped by Police / Vosa, fully laden with fat lambs. They just asked me where I was from, which is only 10 miles away, and then let me on my way. The guy in the traffic car would have checked my number plate against their computer first. Farmers and other transporters are pulled up very regularly in the same spot around by us, just 1/2 mile before the market.



Edited By Broomcroft on 1268202139

[Martin]

I think the main problem is if your trailer is rated at more than your towing vehicle is allowed to tow. If your trailer is rated at 3500kg and your vehicle is only allowed to tow 2800kg then you are breaking the law whether the trailer is empty or full. You can fit a second plate with 2800kg and you would then be legal ( as I understand it ). I have heard of people that have just removed the plate, whether this would be legal I do not know.

[Louisa Gidney]

Being a total ignoramus on such matters, how do I find out what my vehicle and trailer towing ratings are?
The Land Rover is 24 this year. Do I keep my fingers crossed for a year until it reaches its 25th birthday?
I'm only planning one trip over 60 miles, to the October rare breeds sale at York.

[Broomcroft]

The bit of stuff I saw Louisa, was that the vehicles age has to be 25 years from the date of the journey, so next year your landrover can go to Cornwall and John O Groats without any a tacho. I think you are still OK with your 60 miles journey according to the advice I had in any case.

I thought all landrovers (defenders) had always been a towing capacity of 3.5 tonnes? With the older ones, it's stopping that's more of a problem :D.



Edited By Broomcroft on 1268223818

[Tim Watson]

The handbook in my Defender S/W says 3500Kg and from what I can see it's the same across the whole range.