Calling the vet to a calving

[Saffy]

I wonder how long other people think is a reasonable wait if you have called your vet to a calving?

Years ago with my milking herd it was usually between 15 and 30 minutes, however I have called them twice to my dexters and had a different time of it - much longer waits!

This last call out this morning and they were a good hour and a half, proving just too long for the calf, its heart was going but the vet failed to get it to take a breath!

I am furious, if they didn't have a vet available I think they should have said so, I could have asked a different practice to come out. Also I explained that it wasn't a particularly difficult calving but that Chris was ill in bed and I hadn't been well, so didn't feel I should try pulling it on my own, I wanted to go for the safe option!!!! I wish I had asked my neighbour to help now, I may have even been able to pull it by myself and would have tried before waiting that long.

So how long do you think is a reasonable wait?

Stephanie

[Louisa Gidney]

If I phone a vet for a call-out for anything, it's an emergency and I expect them there in about 15mins! Vets should be allowed blue lights and sirens, like ambulances. I must admit the last time, the girl vet asked if I wanted someone to come out. I politely suggested that that was why I was phoning, since it was outside surgery hours. The senior practice vet is a star and has yet to let me down.
How absolutely galling to lose the calf like that.

[Broomcroft]

We changed our vet 3 years ago because the previous one was slow and bureaucratic. When you phoned, you went through into a system, and then they would call you back. That could take 10 minutes. So we changed practice and with the new people, a vet now answers the phone overnight and can often deal with the issue on the phone, or at least start you off in the right direction whilst you wait for them to arrive.

If you're not happy, change your vet.

[Saffy]

Thank you both for your answers which have made me feel a little happier.

I actually decided to change my vet during the wait Clive and have put it in motion, I feel sure a calving should be treated as an emergency as Louisa suggests and therefore an hour and a half is unacceptable. Also having called then twice over a couple of years to a calving and now had two similar experiences it would obviously happen again. At least the calf a year or so ago was still alive.

I should probably have changed before but the vets at the practice are all very likeable and I hoped it was a one off.

Stephanie

[Duncan MacIntyre]

Currently any Vet in General Practice is expected to provide emergency service 24/7 or to take reasonable steps for someone else to do so on their behalf. Many practices have just completely opted out of providing any service for farm animals. Farm out of hours services are much more difficult to provide, and invariably involve the vet visiting the patient, whereas for small animal work the cover can be arranged commually between practices, and the patients have to travel slightly further than to their usual vet. Farm clients also tend to be using their vet less and less, many expect to have medicines at little or no mark up for the practice or to purchase them elsewhere. So we have fewer and fewer large animal vets covering increasingly large areas - a fifteen minute response when one vet is covering half a county is completely unrealistic.

My own practice area now covers the Isle of Bute and the Cowal peninsula of Argyll, but divided by the Kyles of Bute we need two vets on call every night out of five of us, and the same for weekends. We cannot really justify 5 vets economically, but are trying to keep that number just to stay sane. It is getting increasingly difficult to recruit vets willing to do any on call work as many practices not subscribe to urban out of hours schemes and their daytime vets do no night work. Our vets do a long day and then have to be on call all night or all weekend, followed by another full days work.
Another aspect of work these days is that it is increasingly difficult for young vets to get the experience which is needed - clients expect a fully experienced vet all the time. Another impossiblilty.

Maybe a sensible discussion with the vet as to why it took a "long time" to get there might be a good idea. Maybe they were doing an equally important job for another client.

If anyone wants to guarantee a vet on farm at any given time then employ a vet yourself. You will then find that the European Working Time Regulations insist that you would actually need five or six vets just to have one available at your very own behest 24/7.

Our Rothesay surgery takings from 6pm Friday to 9am today amounted to about £70. If I had employed a locum for that time I would have had to pay at least £500. What business, whether a partnership, limited company or single handed practice can run on that basis?

Sorry to rant

No, I'm not, but please don't any of you take this personally - I just want you to see it from the other side of the equation.

Duncan

(expecting a lot of flak)

[Jac]

Sorry Duncan, I blaim Petplan. Thousands of pounds to treat a pet cat ....

However, I must say that our vets remain very committed to farm clients are very good especially when it comes to night calls.

[Saffy]

I called the vet at 11 in the morning this wasn't a night call.

Then carefully explained that it wasn't a particularly difficult calving but due to illness - Chris is no better actually so may have to call the GP next - I wasn't very fit and felt it ideal to call them in to be on the safe side as I didn't want to start something I couldn't finish. I gave my full name and address.

If they had no vet available they could have said and I would have either called another practice or tried telephoning neighbours, I expect somebody would have been able to help.

When after an hour the vet didn't appear I rang the surgery to enquire, he had left the surgery and should be here in about 10 minutes. When after an hour and a half I rang the surgery to enquire, he had left the surgery and would be here in about 10 minutes. I questioned this and pointed out that they said the same half an hour ago, so they changed the tune and said he left an hour ago! My patience thinned. Each time I rang I gave my full name and address.

The vet arrived, I enquired why it took so long these days to come out to a calving. He had been TB testing and had to finish, then he went to the wrong farm and waited. He had never been back to the surgery. So why did the staff say he had left there and would be 10 minutes, he had never been back to the surgery?

I quite understand the difficulties faced by vets these days Duncan but why shouldn't the vet give the farmer an approximate ETA? Apart from the fact that had he been earlier my cow would be rearing a calf this year. I stood on the yard like a lemon for an hour and a half waiting and it should be my decision whether my cow waits that long to be treated or not.

[Louisa Gidney]

Duncan's reply has made me realise how jolly lucky I am with the practice I use. They have a regular turn over of young vets, frequently Ozzies or Kiwis funding a trip to Europe, who get sent out for routine stuff, like ringing a bull. Poor chap commented that the kit he was sent out with belonged in a museum but it worked and, together with the Heath Robinson method of restraint, added to his education. Anything potentially tricky, like a dodgy calving, gets the senior chap out sharpish. I'm half way between where the vet lives and the surgery, so he will pop in to deal with my crisis on the way in on the morning.
It probably helps that there is still a good balance of small and farm animal work for them.

[natmadaboutdexters]

At a difficult calving last November, we called our vet out, he is a 'one man band' and was with us within 30 mins. He told us that he was due to be TB testing but came to us first as we were an emergency. At night his duties are covered by a larger practise who charge him but he passes this charge onto his customers. This means we pay a bit more because its not him but at least some one comes out!


Natasha

[Broomcroft]

Stephanie - are your vets all rounders, or farm only? Without wishing to insult Duncan or anyone in remoter areas where it will be different, personally I wouldn't use an all rounder. That was the problem with our last vet, the one we sacked, they weren't really interested in livestock although they said they were. I'd call your vet totally incompetent. If you have an alternative, get rid. Max 30-40 minutes here for call-outs except under very exceptional circumstances and then they would let you know there was a problem immediately. I've even spoken to vets in the night whilst they were working on another farm in an emergency.

[wagra dexters]

We had cause to call our vet in to an emergency yesterday. I had put off calling because I thought he was probably bound to be 45 minutes on the other side of his catchment, and we are situated 45 minutes this side of it.
As it happened I eventually had no option but to call him. Amazingly he was here within 20 minutes, having been working on a property to the north of us. (At least 40 minutes away by legal speed.)
He saved our little cow but she now has calving paralysis. He couldn't save her eighth calf, a big dun bull, too big for a small non-short cow of less than a metre long-leg.
This 'great year' hasn't been so great for us. Our drought-proof frugal Bendoc Wagra Dexters don't do it well when life is too cushy. They are too used to excelling in the tough going of the hard years.
Margaret

[davidw]

Hi Saffy, Chris is much more likely to get good treatment from your vet than from your GP. Our neighbour always used to call the vet for any medical problem - human or animal. I'm sure its against some code of conduct or other, but it kept him happy and healthy.

[natmadaboutdexters]

I've heard that Vets can treat humans but Doctors can't treat animals, something to do with all the training that Vets have I presume?

Natasha