Bull Calf not standing

[Tim Watson]

Dear All,

Some wise council please.

FACTS
Dam - 7yr Old Dexter. Had a calf in 2010 and 2011. Slipped one last year.

Her waters broke at 2050hrs last night and after watching and waiting we got to a point where the same amount of front feet and tongue were showing during the contractions, ie progress had ceased. We assisted the calf out (just ropes on his front feet) and had a bull calf in the straw at 1100. All well and he breathed straight away.

After a while he started to try to get up but his legs didn't look right. He would get up on his front with his hooves bent back and his back legs appeared to be bent up under him. After about an hour of leaving them to it I went in to check his legs and sprayed his navel at the same time. His legs were not locked (Schmallenberg) but were stiff.

At 0100hrs he still hadn't stood so we fed colostrum in the hope he would get a bit of a boost and be on his way.

He was checked through the night with no change.

0830hrs this am called the vet out who checked all the reflexes which are there. He confirmed there is no rigidity in his legs and ruled out Schmallenberg. When holding his back leg out straight down (90 degrees to his spine) he will kick to release his hoof. Vet thinks it could be as a result of slight lack of oxygen to the brain.

He has had a shot of steroids (in case there is brain swelling), Vit B and Pen & Strep (which we have to continue for the next two days 1ml under the skin). He has also advised some 'physio' to get his legs stretched out and to turn him from one hip to the other. Suggests putting a small bale on its long narrow edge and draping him over it to get his legs stretched out.

Managed get him onto a teat for a short while this morning but he couldn't stay on so we have stripped some of her milk and bottle fed again this morning.

I am sure that there are many things we should have / could have done better/differently although the vet assures us his condition is not as a result of our actions.

What else should we have done, and can we do to get him up and going?

Thanks in advance,
Tim

[Broomcroft]

Personally I think you done everything you can. It's a bit hard to say without seeing it, but having difficulty with legs is not unusual, them looking bent etc. Are they straightening out yet?

Can it get up and suckle, or any sign of it getting nearer to that stage? If not and you need to feed it, try not giving it too much, plenty enough to keep it fit but not enough to stop it wanting to get to mom. I've done calves like this for 5-7 days and eventually they've taken from mom 100% (different problem though).

As far as the calf kicking when you hold it's leg, they all do, well mine do!

We've had lambs with feet bent back and they walk on their "knuckles", and had to splint them which has worked most times.

Any chance of some photos Tim?

[Rob R]

We've had lambs with feet bent back and they walk on their "knuckles", and had to splint them which has worked most times.

Perhaps not relevant to this case but we had a cow (not a Dexter, a Kerry, with a Dexter cross calf) that I thought was going to finish me off when I was checking over it's calf that couldn't straighten it's front legs. I did get out of the shed by edging my way around a central post but she was never right with me again so we had to cull her. Anyway, the calf spent several week getting round on it's knuckles and when it came to turning out they went with the rest of the herd. It hobbled around the field for a few days but it wasn't long before it straigthened out and it grew as well as it's peers.

[LISA]

I have seen a few calves like this years ago in a Fresian Herd, when I was relief milking.

The farmer gave one calf an injection of Selenium (and Vitamin E?) for a few days and he quickly improved. Apparantly Selenium deficiency is common in calves ? (maybe Duncan could advise here?)
Also a relatively cheap injection that can do no harm.

Another calf that could not stand (front legs though) was diagnosed with BVD, and had to be put down.

We have had one Dexter calf suffer brain damage during calving (breach birth) he could not get up, front or back legs, and despite trying everything within economic, physical, and moral reason sadly had to be put down. (Sorry to end on a negative!)

Hope your calf improves.

Best Wishes

Lisa Bell.

[Duncan MacIntyre]

Yes the selenium might be worth trying, but sadly and from personal experience I suspect the last paragraph of Lisa's post is most likely to be true, I lost one two years ago which I found calving at 6.30am, both feet back and head out, got epidural in, head pushed back enough to get feet, and pulled out calf with difficulty. Just at that point my mobile phone alerted me to another calving at other end of the island and I had to leave hastily, did not get back for over 3 hours to discover calf lying just as I had left him. Got him held up to a teat, he sucked, and repeated the performance three or four times daily for weeks, just to find him dead one morning. He could stand eventually but very uncoordinated, I should have known better and let him go sooner.

Duncan

PS one selenium injection which would be suitable is Vitesel, by Norbrook. We recently had a farmer in asking for the injection as recommended by his father in law, not sure of the name but he asked for Vitalite. Comes in a plastic tub in the supermarket I believe.

[Rob R]

We have had one Dexter calf suffer brain damage during calving (breach birth) he could not get up, front or back legs, and despite trying everything within economic, physical, and moral reason sadly had to be put down. (Sorry to end on a negative!)

That reassures me - we had our first breech last week, in fact it was our first backwards calving, but she'd escaped from the field and taken herself off into some very long grass. By the time we were able to get her gathered up to investigate the calf was dead, and it was a good sized calf but with hindsight it was better that way than your experience.

[Duncan MacIntyre]

We should always distinguish a breech presentation from posterior (backwards) presentation. A true breech has the hind legs folded forwards, sometimes at the hocks, sometimes at the hips, and only the tail is presented. A posterior presentation is just the two back legs first instead of front legs and head. Many are born that way and no one knows. The main danger with posterior presentations is that the umbilical cord is constricted before the head is out, so the calf is likely to be suffocated if there is any delay getting the chest out. With a true breech things are much more difficult and often an epidural anaesthetic is needed to allow the tail end to be pushed back in a bit and ropes got onto the lower part of the hind legs to draw them out.

Duncan

[Rob R]

Ours was a hip breech - I was surprised how easy it was to correct, but the cow must have known it was dead as she didn't even give it a second look.

[Broomcroft]

We had a hip breech earlier in the year, can't remember having had one before. Got the hind legs straightened out, put ropes on to make sure we were quick, and pulled the calf out, but it was dead. Must have had a problem with the umbilical whilst inside. It was a heifer and I no doubt waited too long before realising she had a problem.

[Tim Watson]

Well he is up and about largely due to my daughters perseverance.
We had to continue milking and bottle feeding to start with as we could get him to stand but not get him to suckle.

Now he is up and about and sucking which is great.
His legs still look weird and I will post a couple of photos on here tonight I hope.

The vet mentioned selenium but we had their bloods done a while ago as a part of a herd health plan it it wasn't an issue. Need to check selenium content in the mole valley suckler cow rolls which they get daily ( yes, Beryl , every day without fail )

Only time will tell whether he'll survive but he looks ok at the moment.

T

[domsmith]

Only ever had 1 breech and it was twins, both delivered fine in the end.

had a calf this year that was a salvage ceaser and he didnt get up for 4 days and for weeks was like he was loose muscled moved about like a prowling cat. he is fine though now. apart from getting pneumonia over the weekend.

i always think its worth persisting with these sick ones you never know and to not try... well i always do.



dom

[Rob R]

i always think its worth persisting with these sick ones you never know and to not try... well i always do.

I always do, too, but in the full knowledge that it isn't worth it (financially), but that every life is a life and we're not just in it for the money at the end of the day, so it helps with preserving a little dignity and a modicum of sanity.

[ann]

I always do, too, but in the full knowledge that it isn't worth it (financially)

No cow likes to lose its calf and if its a milky cow you also have the decision to make, do you get a replacement calf and all that involves, personally unless you end up with lots of vet bills and you cost your own time out at a high rate, I think its definitely worth a bit of TLC at least you tried your best.

Good luck with your calf.

[Tim Watson]

Apologies for the quality but they are good enough to get the idea of what we are seeing. These were taken on the 10th.

[Broomcroft]

We've had bendy legs but not like that Tim, at least as far as I can tell from a photo. Are they straightening yet, even a little?