New to Dexters, looking for a housecow

[nigel soar]

Hi, my wife and I have a small smallholding with limited grazing. The holding is four and a quarter acres of which I can give a little over 2 for grazing. We live off-grid and our water area needs to be ungrazed but can be cut for hay, so a further acre is available. I have some experience with cattle but zero with Dexters. I would like a housecow and Dexters seem to fit the bill. My worry from lurking here is that the emphasis is mainly on beef which may make sourcing a good milker difficult. Mark has given me some good advice already but anything more anyone can add would be most welcome.

Nigel

[Rob R]

Hi Nigel,

There are a few dedicated dual purpose breeders maintaining milking animals around the country and quite a few that post on here, so I'm sure they'll be along shortly to advise. However the main reason the emphasis is on beef is that the demand is there for beef, rather than milk, so your demand will certainly help! Whereabouts in the country are you?

[nigel soar]

Sorry, should have said! We're a little North of Narberth, close to Clynderwen in Pembrokeshire.

[Rob R]

In that case you're not too far away from Jac, on here, http://www.alvecotedexters.net, who milks and breeds specifically for dual-purpose, and will no doubt be along shortly. And there's always the Dexter Society field advisers.

[nigel soar]

That looks promising! Tregaron isn't too far. That was another question I had, how far is too far for a cow to be transported.

[Louisa Gidney]

I would also advise looking at pedigrees, any ancestry with the Knotting prefix or a CM (Certificate of Merit) or RM (Register of Merit) or DBL (dairy bull licence) suffix will show descent from lines originally bred for milk production.
I would also ask the vendor to have the cow stand (for preference not tied up) and draw milk for you to see.
As for transport, up to 40k (I think!) is unrestricted. Journeys up to 8 hours need a test pass (computer multi-choice questions) and over 8 hours need another test UNLESS there is only one animal, when journey is unrestricted apart from filling out Animal Transport Certificate. All info deep in the bowels of DEFRA website.

[nigel soar]

I've noted Knotting before! Thanks. The distance thing is useful too, thanks. If no-one minds I'll keep asking newbie questions in case others might be interested. So, is there enough room under a Dexter to get a standard milking cluster or should I be thinking goat?

[Duncan MacIntyre]

I have milked short and long legged dexters by hand and by machine. I shortened the legs on the stool to manage by hand. Most of them stood quiet enough to allow the bucket just to sit on the floor, sometimes held between knees too. For the machine I think I shortened the tubes on the claw piece but don't realy remember. For Candy, who was seriously short, I had to put the unit on and let it sit on floor pulled a bit to the side, then you have to keep checking that it is drawing all quarters properly, but you soon get into a routine and so does the cow.

I suspect that many present day dexters will milk very well - most beef cows produce much more milk than is realised, but of course if they are being suckled regularly it never accumulates. Good evidence of this is of course the growth rate of their calves. The milk yeild of course depends on feeding - if they are on nothing but grass you might get enough for the house, but if you feed them more like a dairy cow you will get much more - I used to get up to 4 gallons a day at peak from some of mine, and the best were not always the ones you would have picked from pedigree info alone.

For the transport regs, there are so many different bits of law affecting it. Most are not too restricting, I had my land rover and trailer approved for journeys in UK up to 12 hours with no bother, just to find out a year later that we need a tachograph in the towing vehicle for journeys over 40miles and abide by drivers working hours - a problem if you work the sort of hours I do and then want to go to a sale or show on a Saturday. This if for "train weight" of over 3.5 tons. It is difficult to have any sensible 4 x 4 and trailer under that - it refers to the maximum permitted weight too, not just the weight you have on that day. However a 3.5 ton flatbed truck with livestock body does not need a tacho.

Duncan

[nigel soar]

Thanks, that's reassuring. My plan is to feed some cake to make the whole milking idea agreeable. Ideally starting with a youngish incalf dry cow and bringing her in twice daily to have cake, fuss and get used to a routine prior to calving. If all goes well then I will have the milk pump working from the generator so the noise won't come as a shock either. Now of course comes the company question! Is one too small a number?

[Broomcroft]

Now of course comes the company question! Is one too small a number?

That's the question I've always wanted to ask. How do they get on alone? Our previous assurance scheme banned keeping any animal of any species on it's own.

By the way, we've bred 100% for beef, and of all the cows we've ever had, bought, bred, only one had anything less than too much milk and she had plenty . But there must be some out there no doubt?

[Duncan MacIntyre]

Usually a dexter in milk will have a calf around - I used to keep mine in a pen in the byre and bring the cow in to milk twice a day, bucket fed the calf, this let me milk record the cow. I also used to buy in extra calves to use the milk but the economics of this changed and I am also BVD and Johnes accredited so don't want any bought in animals. Some cows can provide enough to feed their own calf, two bought in ones, and milk for the house at the same time. One extra was more usual for me. Harron Erica reared her own calf, 7 bought in calves, and gave us enough milk for two adults and two children in the house for one lactation. Bought in calves made £500 profit, cow bought the year before for £400, sold the next for 840gns at Stoneleigh. These were the days!

Duncan

[Rob R]

For a second there I was thinking you meant £500 profit each, and almost choked on my tea.

[nigel soar]

Thanks guys, looking into the future, is semen available from AI. In fact is AI as available as it was? And, what are my responsibilities towards the breed?

[Jac]

However the main reason the emphasis is on beef is that the demand is there for beef, rather than milk ...

Your cornflakes must be very dry Rob

[Rob R]

Trouble is, I eat massive bowls of cornflakes