Raising Calf off Dam

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:01 pm

Got myself into a pickle and have a heifer calf that I have been bottle feeding since being born two weeks ago. I won't go into all the details, but basically the dam is VILE, forgot to cull her last year, gave her one more chance, she used to be OK till last years calf! Only use her for beef and now even that is not an option!

Anyhow, my question is, has anyone a program they work to in this situation, i.e. how much milk replacer for how long, when to wean because she is still with mom who wants to kill anyone who goes near her, when to introduce other feeds etc.

The heifer calf is an Angus-Dexter cross but she is no different size-wise, at the moment, to a Dexter.

domsmith · Post by **domsmith** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:07 pm

i am sure the dairy people can give you the pro way. we rear on milk powder. twice a day feeding for 8 weeks. 2.5l per feed. intordce creep from a couple of weeks and straw adlib. dont let them get to hay or silage. they get pot bellied.
taking off mum would be easier and go and get a 2nd calf to keep it company, if you can be bothered. mum will only eat the creep and the calf get the silage.

cut you milk down over the last 10 days to wean.

works for us

or get yourself a good cow who can double suckle, you must have some milky ones in your herd. much easier once youve got it started and cheaper

dom

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:59 pm

domsmith wrote:or get yourself a good cow who can double suckle, you must have some milky ones in your herd. much easier once youve got it started and cheaper

I've got cows calving now, 12 down, 30 to go. How do you get a cow to take this two week old calf. trouble is time at the moment, thick snow, frozen pipes. But pretend that isn't a problem, how do you do it?

Edited By Broomcroft on 1263416434

Louise Badcock · Post by **Louise Badcock** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:06 am

You must tie the cow up and as it is winter just keep her tied up in the old fashioned way. Keep her calf and the other one in a calf box near by and let them both out together to feed a few times a day. I am not sure how often. Make sure there is enough room on both sides. Give her a nice bucket of food to occupy her. After a few weeks they will both smell the same and you may be able to loose her. I raised a few calves on a jersey some years ago and that is what I did. the calves can have good hay and calf pellets in their box and when they are eating enough you can wean them. But with luck you can turn the cow out with the 2 calves.

Carol K · Post by **Carol K** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:52 am

Hi Clive,
I had a first time heifer abandon her calf last year and I'd had another cow calve a week earlier, so after bottle feeding it a few times he was good and strong, I just let him in with them both. He tried to feed right away and she kicked him off. Her own calf got up to feed and so long as her own calf was closest to her head the other guy slipped in next to him (same side), that way she couldn't horn him away and she was too confused to kick him! She washed them both, but wouldn't feed the abandoned one on it's own for a few weeks, he had to eat when the other little guy ate. After a few weeks it was almost like they were twins, the cow did a great job raising them both. It helped to have the abandoned calf where the cow could see it for a few days I think.
Good luck,

Carol K

Denise · Post by **Denise** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:28 am

Clive, also what often works if your cow has a newborn, rub the orphan with the afterbirth so it smells like hers.
Spray a bit of her milk onto it is another suggestion. the more the 2 calves can smell alike and the earlier you introduce the 2nd calf to her (as she calves would be brilliant if you could), she just might think she had 2 at the same time...... has worked well - depends on the cow concerned.

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:06 am

Same as sheep then!

I'll give it a go putting the calf with another new calver. I may try and put them together just before calving so that maybe the cow will start to think it's hers before she's even had her own. Then I can put some afterbirth over the older calf as well. Got another half dozen or so due right now. I'll try and pick a really submissive one and pen them up together.

Many thanks

Edited By Broomcroft on 1263463576

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:21 pm

Hello Clive,

Difficult situation!

With our dairy followers we gave them milk powder from a week old but they had access to a calf ration from 5 days and also ad lib hay. They would eat very little calf ration at first so we only put a tiny bit in the bottom of the bucket so it didn't go off but that way they were used to it. They needed to eat about two and a half pounds to wean, two and a quarter was being tight but would be enough for Dexters.

Hope you get it on a cow but then if she stays on bottle/bucket - at least she should be friendlier than the mother.

At least you can cull the mother without a qualm!!!

Stephanie

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:03 pm

domsmith wrote:we rear on milk powder. twice a day feeding for 8 weeks. 2.5l per feed.

dom - surely I don't give 5 ltr a day to a two week old calf do I? I'm giving about less than 2 ltr at the moment for the day. Do you build up to 5 ltr a day?

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:11 pm

Hello Clive,

We gave 4 pints in old money to dairy and beef calves. Very rarely a very large Charolais - 120 pounds + in weight would get 5 pints.

Dexters would have less than 4 pints to start and yes you could gradually up the amount if you wanted to, rather than give more of other feed but you need to be careful you don't scour it.

I think you can offer larger quantities of the milk substitute that is offered cold and the calves take it as and when it suits them, as they are less likely to gorge. We always fed the calf milk warm and directly to the calf.

Stephanie

Edited By Saffy on 1263485651

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:36 pm

Standard amount max feed for a standard calf is 2 litres, so dexters might be expected to be best with a bit less. The problem if you put in too much is that the raw milk cannot be held in the stomach till curdled and goes straight into intestine, making scours very likely. Many more calves have died from too much than too little. Although calves might manage a bit more as they grow if you are using milk powder it makes more sense to have high quality calf nuts or coarse mix available as someone else has said, small amounts from day one. Then they can be weaned off the milk earlier. Good quality straw is best for starting off rumen activity, or good quality hay if not avaialable. It should be available from day one, as shoud fresh water.

Duncan

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:37 pm

Standard amount max feed for a standard calf is 2 litres, so dexters might be expected to be best with a bit less. The problem if you put in too much is that the raw milk cannot be held in the stomach till curdled and goes straight into intestine, making scours very likely. Many more calves have died from too much than too little. Although calves might manage a bit more as they grow if you are using milk powder it makes more sense to have high quality calf nuts or coarse mix available as someone else has said, small amounts from day one. Then they can be weaned off the milk earlier. Good quality straw is best for starting off rumen activity, or good quality hay if not avaialable. It should be available from day one, as shoud fresh water.

Duncan

domsmith · Post by **domsmith** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:27 pm

Broomcroft wrote:
domsmith wrote:we rear on milk powder. twice a day feeding for 8 weeks. 2.5l per feed.
dom - surely I don't give 5 ltr a day to a two week old calf do I? I'm giving about less than 2 ltr at the moment for the day. Do you build up to 5 ltr a day?

I suppose i am not sure with a dexter, but we have just sold our urban u40 machine and it started on 5l and we had them on 6-7 litres by day 10, so they would be 20 days old.
i am suprised by 2 litres a day, but we are used to working with ayrshires, definately not less than 2 -2.5l per feed.
the milk replacer bag should give you a guide, we have wyedale feeders and they are graduated at 2l, i pressume because thats a standard feed?

interesting

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:49 pm

When I say 2 litres twice a day, that means two feeds which would be drunk in a few minutes/seconds. This will not be the same as using a feeder which allows ad lib or at least extended feeding through a teat. The 2 litre limit is what was taught in ATB courses in calf rearing. I am sure it would be safe to go above that if feeding was more spread out through the day. You can also give more than 2 litres of colostrum to a big calf - colostrum is different and the gut is different in that critical first 24hrs. 6 pints in 6 hours is the easy to remember rule for colostrum, of course again refers to ayrshire/friesian/holstein calves. Dexter probably ok with 4 pints colostrum.

Duncan

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:44 am

Saffy wrote:We gave 4 pints in old money to dairy and beef calves. Very rarely a very large Charolais - 120 pounds + in weight would get 5 pints.

Dexters would have less than 4 pints to start and yes you could gradually up the amount if you wanted to, rather than give more of other feed but you need to be careful you don't scour it.

Stephanie, are you talking 4 pints per feed for a normal beef calf, or 4 pints per day. If per feed, how many feeds per day?

Thanks for help

Edited By Broomcroft on 1263545090