Dexter Cattle For Sale Discussion Board

Duncan wrote: The seller and the auctioneer both have a very important role to play in determining just how good a price can be obtained.

The benefits of the breed need to be more effectively marketed both to the buyers and to auctioneers. Presentation is important but with regard to the original poster who took them to Exeter Livestock Market poor presentation did not apply.

Rob Wrote: Dexters are, IMO, the best breed there is. They produce fantastic, healthy beef on a diet that wouldn't maintain most breeds and are much easier on the soil because of their small size.

Rob wrote Vendors know their animals and their genetics inside out but the vast majority of purchasers will be walking into that mart completely blind. The catalogue is probably the only source of information they have so really sell them in the description. They probably don't even know they want a Dexter and as you're 99% likely to be selling to someone who doesn't need to make money out of them then they need to be sold the advantage of spending a large amount of their disposable income on a Dexter.

I agree, what is needed are hard facts and actual figures to back this up and this needs to be communicated to both the auctioneers selling them and to potential buyers who are looking for that sort of thing. If you are going to a fatstock sale you are not looking for a pet are you?

Jac wrote:

Rob Wrote: Dexters are, IMO, the best breed there is. They produce fantastic, healthy beef on a diet that wouldn't maintain most breeds and are much easier on the soil because of their small size.

Rob wrote Vendors know their animals and their genetics inside out but the vast majority of purchasers will be walking into that mart completely blind. The catalogue is probably the only source of information they have so really sell them in the description. They probably don't even know they want a Dexter and as you're 99% likely to be selling to someone who doesn't need to make money out of them then they need to be sold the advantage of spending a large amount of their disposable income on a Dexter.

I agree, what is needed are hard facts and actual figures to back this up and this needs to be communicated to both the auctioneers selling them and to potential buyers who are looking for that sort of thing. If you are going to a fatstock sale you are not looking for a pet are you?

Most vendors seem to think that the word 'pedigree' is sufficient to describe an animal in ads, which makes no distinction between the animal they're selling and the other few thousand in the herdbook. To me the name and/or number is the most important piece of information for a pedigree animal.

Saffy wrote:Fewer people bid on the best because they are going to make the most...lots will bid on the worse, thinner etc as they are hoping for a "bargain."

I meant that the highest priced aren't necessarily the best animals at auction, just the most popular.

As the Dexters biggest selling point is it's thriftiness and ability to fatten on grass, with no established market for finished stock beyond filling the buyers freezer, the 'poorer' looking animals are the ones with greatest potential, and therefore value. The ones that look 'finished' (not necessarily in the killing sense) can only maintain their state or go backwards in a new home, on a different regime.

Saffy wrote:Fewer people bid on the best because they are going to make the most...lots will bid on the worse, thinner etc as they are hoping for a "bargain." Or they just want the chance to bid and will drop out before the hammer falls and don't want to take the risk on the more expensive when there will be fewer bids anyway!

Yesterday I sold some Herdwick sheep at a specialist sale and for the first time brought a good many home, the ones I sold made poor prices and I will just take a handful next time.

Stephanie

I am not too sure about that - in order to make a price irrespective of the class of animal the essential ingredient is two people who wantit as opposed to a couple who will take it.

I took what could fairly be described as economy cattle home from both Lanark and Carlisle, in the cae of Lanark I was frankly not interested in any of the "better" cattle - not meaning any disrepect there but they were not what I want. There were some calves there that I bid to a price which I was happy to pay - in each case another £5 would have seen them knocked down to the underbidder because I would not have paid a penny more.

At Carlisle if the truth were told I bought calves - the cows were incidental. I thought Carlisle was a pretty good sellers sale price wise in the first half and sadly a bit of a shambles in the second half.

I do agree with Duncan's comments on presentation - if you want good prices then show good cattle and show them well . If they look poorly done it is likely to put the hobby keeper off and you are now selling to those who have spare silage or grazing - and a pretty firm idea on price.

cheers
mac

Boofarm wrote:

Saffy wrote:Fewer people bid on the best because they are going to make the most...lots will bid on the worse, thinner etc as they are hoping for a "bargain." Or they just want the chance to bid and will drop out before the hammer falls and don't want to take the risk on the more expensive when there will be fewer bids anyway!

Yesterday I sold some Herdwick sheep at a specialist sale and for the first time brought a good many home, the ones I sold made poor prices and I will just take a handful next time.

Stephanie

I am not too sure about that - in order to make a price irrespective of the class of animal the essential ingredient is two people who wantit as opposed to a couple who will take it.

That's it in a nutshell, and getting those people to be there, organise the finance & take the trailer is the biggest hurdle to get over. Even the best presented animal won't do as well if the buyers don't know in advance.

strawberriesclint wrote:I would just like to say how disappointed I was with the sale at Exeter, we entered 24, what waste of time and effort. We spent all day the day before cleaning and clipping them, ready for the sale and they looked lovely.
I had high hopes for good prices but was sadly disappointed, if the Dexter breed is to survive people need to be educated on what a decent price for a Dexter is as there seems to be too many people wanting them cheap.
As a society we should all have a set price for certain age or type of Dexter sold eg a standard price for cow and calf.At least some sort of guidance and make sure people who want them pay a decent price, if we all stuck together we could change how people think because if we don't I can't see a future for Dexters.
How sad!

With the DCS AGM pending and voting papers going out members should take time and reflect on how our breed has progressed.

I suggested we had an upset price at official sales many years ago. Maybe we should be thinking about it now?

Yes.

I think there is also much breeders could do to help themselves by not putting heifers in calf before offering them for sale that way they could go for beef at a realistic price.

Couldn't agree more Jac

And at the risk of sounding like the 'Dexter police' ..... selling/hiring out bulls. Have the purchasers/lenders got a credible plan for disposing of the offspring surplus to their requirements?

I don't have a problem with an upset price at sales/auctions but how do you stop the minimum price buyers see when they go onto Preloved etc, we cant govern private sales, if people want £150 for a heifer or £50 for an animal in a commercial mart no one can stop them surely.
Kill heifers, that's what I do, trouble is the breed attracts the type of people who cant think like that.

I disagree with Jac and Mark.

Upset prices don't work. We tried that with one of my sheep breeds when RBST sale was still at Stoneleigh. The result was that the auctioneer ran the price up to just below the upset price then passed the animal out of the ring. The vendors had no way of knowing if there were genuine bidders. We all ended up unexpectedly taking stock home that we'd brought 100's of miles to sell, back in the day when Stoneleigh was promoted as THE venue for moving bloodlines round the country. The level of disgruntlement was such that the experiment has not been repeated.

Purchasers generally want to buy a heifer in calf. It's usually the first question that's asked by people going down the sale lines, at the sales I go to anyway.

People who hire my bulls are wanting to breed beef for the freezer for themselves and the family/friends circuit. Practically none of them are selling on registered heifers by my bulls through the regional pedigree breed sales.

I do agree with Rob that THE most important thing at an auction is two bidders who actively want to buy the same animal. Is the way forward to engage more actively with the broader small holder movement?

By "upset price" I take it you mean a verbal reserve given to the auctioneer as you come into the ring?

Sorry to seem a bit dense but its not a term I have heard - it works fine in my experience but you have to set it where you are happy to take them home or happy to let them go an the day. I have had to do both with animals in general not just dexters. If you do put such a price on then you can ask the auctioneer that if he sends the beast out he should use a phrase like "Not right now folks but talk to the vendor outside"

As regards heifers its a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't, on balance I suspect most folk at an auction for breeding stock will take an in calf heifer and those without ready access to a bull want one. I only run one bull so unless we have a change they have to go as maidens or beef.

I think it is a Neilsen chap from Dumfries direction who regularly offers to take heifers home and run them with a bull but not sure what success that brings him - it is another option though.

Mind you I don't really get the idea that anyone just wanting beef would be buying a heifer to put in calf with all the attendant risk and delay - seems like a long road for a shortcut.

The way forward - any and all markets but focus on quality because quantity is not an option, play to the strengths not the weaknesses and protect the strengths as best possible - don't dilute them.



Cheers
mac

An upset price is a minimum bid that will be accepted by the auctioneer and is set by a breeders' group or breed society for a particular sale and advertised as such. It means the vendor CANNOT sell below that price in the ring, even if s/he should wish to.

Mark Bowles wrote:I don't have a problem with an upset price at sales/auctions but how do you stop the minimum price buyers see when they go onto Preloved etc, we cant govern private sales, if people want £150 for a heifer or £50 for an animal in a commercial mart no one can stop them surely.
Kill heifers, that's what I do, trouble is the breed attracts the type of people who cant think like that.

The breed attracts people who can't think like that about bulls!

It's a pet breed and as such attracts some high prices as a result because people aren't expecting their cows to pay them back. The down side of the pet market is indiscriminate breeding and expectation that every bull is worth keeping entire. The irony is that if you look at actual prices at the auctions, steers tend to make more money than bulls.

Perhaps there should be a campaign in the bulletin/newsletters in 2017 to 'cut the nuts' for better prices?