Newbie

[Rossco]

Hello folks

My name is Ross and I am hoping you can help me with some questions that I have prior to becoming a Dexter owner? I'm not looking to get any until April / May next year but I like do do my research first so that I have all the info I need to make the right decision and so that I can look after the dexter properly! My wife and her family are farmers so land, feed and aminal health care are all readily available.

I'm looking for two in calf heifers to start with, naturally polled, short legged and black with black genes for future breeding (I have no idea how easily available cattle are with these requirements?). I would like to run them along side my wife's pedigree Suffolk sheep, initially so that once a year we can have one for the fridge with perhaps a view to selling meat privately if I can convince her to let me up the stock numbers!

I guess my initial questions are what are the pros and cons of the breed, any problems with calving ( I have read several articles saying they are easy calvers and others that say they suffer problems) and are they easy to AI as a full sized cow? (my wife AI's her own cows after being on a course and getting a tank etc). I will ask more questions but think this is a good starting point for now. I appreciate your time reading this and I look forward to reading your comments! Regards, Ross.

[Rob R]

Hi Ross,

If you're set up for AI, ie you have grazing close to your buildings and have the time to observe & catch animals when necessary, then it is a good way to breed with a small herd where keeping or hiring a bull may be expensive.

Dexters are, on the whole, easy calving, but there are the odd examples out there that prove the exception. We rarely see calves being born, even with Spring block-calving; that's how self reliant they are. The shorts tend to have more problems than non-shorts, in my experience.

There aren't many polled Dexters around, so it may not be terribly easy to find exatly what you want. However black Dexters are most common and studying the pedigrees through the online herdbook at www.dextercattle.co.uk will help identify any animals with the potential of having red or dun ancestry.

Short legs are heterozygous though, with homozygous shorts being severely deformed 'bulldog' calves. You can avoid this by always mating a non-short to a short which results in 50:50 short & non-short calves, whereas a short to short mating results in only 25% short calves (with 50% long and 25% bulldogs) so it is advised that you do not mate two short animals. There is now a genetic test for the short gene with tested bulls (or cows) bearing BD1–N in their pedigree for non-carrier of the defetive gene or BD1–C for carriers.

Where in the country are you? I'm sure there'll be a local breeder willing to help out wherever you are, but there are also regional Dexter groups which may also be of use.

[Rossco]

Hi Rob

Thank you for your reply. The farm is just outside Lockerbie. I had hoped to have a chat with a breeder at Dumfries show but unfortunately there was no dexter class this year.

Your post is full of exactly the kind of info I'm looking for, so thanks! I had seen the BD1-N & C somewhere else but had not understood what it was all about! I don't want to be breeding deformed cattle so I will defo be taking this information into account! Sounds like the short legged option may not be so good after all! Silly question now but do non-short have to be below the maximum height as set out on the dexter society website?

Is it frowned upon to de-horn dexters? Just curious as you have indicated that I may struggle to get naturally polled stock?
Thanks!

[Duncan MacIntyre]

Hello Ross,

if you PM me on this site and give your email address I will put you in touch with the Scottish Dexter Group. We have just circulated a newsletter and I am sure Sue Rimmer our secretary will have spare copies ready to send out. Nearly every area in the country is covered by a Dexter Cattle Society support group which are officially affiliated to the DCS, and there are one or two other groups which are not officailly "affiliated" and are just for a looser association of dexter owners - one near you is the Scottish Borders Dexter group

The Scottish Dexter Group is enjoying a revival after a few years in the doldrums, and we will be pleased to sign up new members, you don't need to own dexters to join and you don't need to join DCS first though we would be pleased if you did that too. I hold some info packs for DCS and can mail one to you if you include your postal address in a private messge.

Duncan

[domsmith]

With the help of Duncans bull Burnside Deacon, i have some polled beasts walking about now. i also have alittle bull that has some polled genes from another line and i hope with some luck to get something homozygous at some point.

i am doing alot of crossing so cant promise to have any futre pure Dexter polled heifers but if you get in touch at some point you can have a look at what i have.

i also sold a polled bull last year to a chap in perth who might also have some polled stock if hes had any succes. Nithsdale Jericho was his name and i believe the boy did good over the winter with cows and heifers.

i am in Sanquhar by the way.

Good luck

dominic

[Rossco]

Hi Dominic

I will PM you near the time im looking to buy then if that's ok? I pass through Sanquhar often so I shouldn't have to much trouble finding you!

Many thanks

Regards
Ross

[Rossco]

Do you need to get specialist handling equipment / modify existing equipment? We have good cattle handling facilities on the farm but I have only seen them being used for adult cattle. Any advice would be greatly received!
Thanks
Regards, Ross

[Rob R]

Well I've managed 16 years with no more specialist handling equipment than a gate, so I'd say no.

[Broomcroft]

Do you need to get specialist handling equipment / modify existing equipment? We have good cattle handling facilities on the farm but I have only seen them being used for adult cattle. Any advice would be greatly received!
Thanks
Regards, Ross

If you have handling facilities for large cattle, then that should do your Dexters as well. My race is a standard race, i.e. not for Dexters, and it works fine. But my crush is an IAE Warrior which is slightly narrower and smaller than most of their other offerings like the Chieftain. But I'd think you could still manage fine with a larger crush. If you've got a yoke you could use that quite a lot. We put our calves in the yoke but get up behind them if they are pulling backwards too hard.

With the odd calving difficulty we've had, we just make up a small pen of gates tied together and halter the cow to one corner. Not had a problem with that yet.

[Rossco]

Thanks folks. Good to know that I don't need to invest in additional equipment!

I have been reading some threads about dexter price and the upcoming sale and am curious what the norm is for:

Buying stock

Is the prefered method to buy privately or through dexter society breeding sales?

Selling stock

1) at dexter society pedigree breeding stock sales (in ginnies?).

2) at fat / cast / general stock sales

From reading the other threads I'm getting the feeling that there is no distinction between the two when buying/selling at market but can't help feeling there should be as with all other pedigree sales?

[Jac]

Thanks folks. Good to know that I don't need to invest in additional equipment!

I have been reading some threads about dexter price and the upcoming sale and am curious what the norm is for:

Buying stock

Is the prefered method to buy privately or through dexter society breeding sales?

Selling stock

1) at dexter society pedigree breeding stock sales (in ginnies?).

2) at fat / cast / general stock sales

From reading the other threads I'm getting the feeling that there is no distinction between the two when buying/selling at market but can't help feeling there should be as with all other pedigree sales?

I would never buy or sell at a sale DCS or otherwise -where animals gather so does the risk of disease. Prices for Dexters are generally very poor at general stock sales and the Society do not advise people to try to sell via that route.

[Rossco]

Hi Jac

I am sensing I have maybe hit a raw nerve with my last question or perhaps some frustration at the DCS either way I apologise but I may as well find out what I'm getting myself into if I go down this route!

With my wife's pedigree suffs (sorry to harp on about them but they are the only current benchmark that i have to go on!) we worry that it's not just rossettes and silverware that we are bringing back from shows! However I went to the recent pedigree breeding stock sale at Carlisle and prior to the sale she had to have a vet visit to check the stock and confirm that the stock and farm were free from disease. Once at the show they had an additional vet health check and a check by the suffolk sheep society to ensure the stock was in conformance to the guidelines of the society for the breed. I would like to think that you good people as fully paid up members of the DCS and castonians of the breed were being given the same level of care from the markets and society? If not then I am truly saddened! I am surprised that the DCS discourage selling at markets in this way as surely its limiting the breeds exposure to new comers to the breed and limiting your income potential? However saying that I have absolutely no problem with buying stock by private sale.
Regards, Ross

[Mark Bowles]

Ross, the DCS do not discourage buyers to buy at sales. It is true dexters do not do well at commercial sales but certain breed sales do have inspections by DCS represntatives, Melton Mowbray and Carlisle in particular, these tend to be specific rare or native breed sales.
One way to know the quality of the stock you are buying is to see if it has been Linear Assessed, especially bulls, the basic theory being the higher score the animal has the better quality it is.Linear should really help newbies like yourself who are a bit uncertain about what they are looking at.

[Jac]

Hi Jac

I am sensing I have maybe hit a raw nerve with my last question or perhaps some frustration at the DCS either way I apologise but I may as well find out what I'm getting myself into if I go down this route!

With my wife's pedigree suffs (sorry to harp on about them but they are the only current benchmark that i have to go on!) we worry that it's not just rossettes and silverware that we are bringing back from shows! However I went to the recent pedigree breeding stock sale at Carlisle and prior to the sale she had to have a vet visit to check the stock and confirm that the stock and farm were free from disease. Once at the show they had an additional vet health check and a check by the suffolk sheep society to ensure the stock was in conformance to the guidelines of the society for the breed. I would like to think that you good people as fully paid up members of the DCS and castonians of the breed were being given the same level of care from the markets and society? If not then I am truly saddened! I am surprised that the DCS discourage selling at markets in this way as surely its limiting the breeds exposure to new comers to the breed and limiting your income potential? However saying that I have absolutely no problem with buying stock by private sale.
Regards, Ross

Not a raw nerve. You cannot always tell from looking at an animal - only by blood sampling. We decided to go down the route of health accreditation with our herd so purchasing at sales is not an option for us. The DCS is a little behind the commercial breeds as far as Hi Health herds are concerned although in Scotland and Wales there was some incentive from the devolved governments to subsidise certain tests (BVD and Johne's) but it was only a one off test to get you on your way no coverage for IBR or L Hardjo nor the membership fee for the health scheme or vets fees for the blood sampling. There was an initiative by the DCS but after an initial presentation it seems to have died a death which I think is a shame. I can see that there are difficulties as many rely on showing to sell their stock and this is full of hastle for the accredited herd.

As the Dexter is not generally viewed as a commercial animal one would struggle to get a bid at some general livestock auctions as commercial people (auctioneers/farmers/butchers) just have no idea what they are dealing with. The size of the animal and its potential for profit are severely limited when compared to a commercial e.g. the overheads are fixed for all - transport, killing, cutting etc. (we won't go into the grading issue) Great to market a quality product yourself (dexter beef) at a premium price but not something you will trade at an auction. This is one of the reasons why people are crossing them with a beef breed (if they do not intend to market the product in a bag) it is something the commercial boys know.

[Saffy]

Also if you buy in you should isolate all new animals from other stock. I do this for a minimum of 2 weeks but I prefer to do it for 3 weeks. Then if they are brewing a disease the rest of the stock shouldn't be affected. If the animals aren't really quiet I keep them in a a shed as well so that I can give them more attention and get them more used to me and quieter during that time as well.

Stephanie